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	<title>Comments on: A gadget, a blog and why I&#8217;m reading &#8216;Mega Shift&#8217;</title>
	<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/</link>
	<description>...no one of consequence</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: nooc</title>
		<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>nooc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-176</guid>
		<description>"We who come from traditions that emphasize doctrine over action ... do need to humbly learn from their strengths, but we also ought to humbly participate in their theological discussions, to help them think clearly and connectedly about God and his word."

Nic - I LOVE this perspective!  It so captures my own heart and attitude.  Probably easier said then done I suppose... in places outside of Winnipeg at least.  ;)

nooc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We who come from traditions that emphasize doctrine over action &#8230; do need to humbly learn from their strengths, but we also ought to humbly participate in their theological discussions, to help them think clearly and connectedly about God and his word.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nic - I LOVE this perspective!  It so captures my own heart and attitude.  Probably easier said then done I suppose&#8230; in places outside of Winnipeg at least.  <img src='http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>nooc</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolas Nelson</title>
		<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolas Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>Great post and discussion, Greg.

I'm so glad you have raised the twin issues of charismatic theology and non-Western evangelical growth.  Through no merit or intent of my own, I have been assistant pastor at a charismatic Latino church in South Central, and been privileged to take graduate-level courses with evangelical leaders from overseas.  Both these experiences (and many others, including my wife's miraculous healing 12 years ago) mean that, although I am put off somewhat by charismatic authors' "bravado", I take their thinking and actions very seriously.

The charismatic movement, like the emerging-church/po-mo-christian movement, has been and still is led mainly by pastoral types, not theologians and scholars.  So it majors on ACTION-- witness their accomplishments!-- but often falls short on doctrine.

We who come from traditions that emphasize doctrine over action (oh, just admit it, you who were surprised to hear of laymen planting 29 churches in 2 years and apologizing for the feebleness of their efforts) do need to humbly learn from their strengths, but we also ought to humbly participate in their theological discussions, to help them think clearly and connectedly about God and his word.  

One example of this bridgebuilding that I recommend: _Spirit and Power_, by Robert and William Menzies (father and son).  Here are two charismatic theologians who invite Western-evangelical participation in their movement.  If you are looking for a book that will stretch your envelope, this will do it, whether you are charismatic or "NONcharismatic".

Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310235073/sr=8-26/qid=1150301266/ref=sr_1_26/002-4510770-8831225?%5Fencoding=UTF8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and discussion, Greg.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad you have raised the twin issues of charismatic theology and non-Western evangelical growth.  Through no merit or intent of my own, I have been assistant pastor at a charismatic Latino church in South Central, and been privileged to take graduate-level courses with evangelical leaders from overseas.  Both these experiences (and many others, including my wife&#8217;s miraculous healing 12 years ago) mean that, although I am put off somewhat by charismatic authors&#8217; &#8220;bravado&#8221;, I take their thinking and actions very seriously.</p>
<p>The charismatic movement, like the emerging-church/po-mo-christian movement, has been and still is led mainly by pastoral types, not theologians and scholars.  So it majors on ACTION&#8211; witness their accomplishments!&#8211; but often falls short on doctrine.</p>
<p>We who come from traditions that emphasize doctrine over action (oh, just admit it, you who were surprised to hear of laymen planting 29 churches in 2 years and apologizing for the feebleness of their efforts) do need to humbly learn from their strengths, but we also ought to humbly participate in their theological discussions, to help them think clearly and connectedly about God and his word.  </p>
<p>One example of this bridgebuilding that I recommend: _Spirit and Power_, by Robert and William Menzies (father and son).  Here are two charismatic theologians who invite Western-evangelical participation in their movement.  If you are looking for a book that will stretch your envelope, this will do it, whether you are charismatic or &#8220;NONcharismatic&#8221;.</p>
<p>Amazon link: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310235073/sr=8-26/qid=1150301266/ref=sr_1_26/002-4510770-8831225?%5Fencoding=UTF8" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310235073/sr=8-26/qid=1150301266/ref=sr_1_26/002-4510770-8831225?%5Fencoding=UTF8</a></p>
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		<title>By: nooc</title>
		<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>nooc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jun 2006 14:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughts Tony and Nathan.

Stats can be a tricky thing and estimates even trickier... which the author talks a bit about.

I found it interesting to compare the concepts of "core apostolics" and "team christianity" to the mystic... or at least what the mystic aspire to.  

The biggest cross-over is a very high value on their communities being "intensely missional".  Btw, "intensely missional" is a phrase we at &lt;a href="http://www.riverwood.cc" rel="nofollow"&gt;Riverwood&lt;/a&gt; are slowly working into our vernacular, our mission statement and, more importantly, our identity and core values.  Now we just have to live up to it.  A challenge I would also put forth to the mystic.  ;)

Mega Shift intensely advocates the smaller, "open", house church concept where they are more like missional action teams.  That got me wondering, in the case of the mystic, if that could work online?  What would that look like?

nooc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughts Tony and Nathan.</p>
<p>Stats can be a tricky thing and estimates even trickier&#8230; which the author talks a bit about.</p>
<p>I found it interesting to compare the concepts of &#8220;core apostolics&#8221; and &#8220;team christianity&#8221; to the mystic&#8230; or at least what the mystic aspire to.  </p>
<p>The biggest cross-over is a very high value on their communities being &#8220;intensely missional&#8221;.  Btw, &#8220;intensely missional&#8221; is a phrase we at <a href="http://www.riverwood.cc" rel="nofollow">Riverwood</a> are slowly working into our vernacular, our mission statement and, more importantly, our identity and core values.  Now we just have to live up to it.  A challenge I would also put forth to the mystic.  <img src='http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mega Shift intensely advocates the smaller, &#8220;open&#8221;, house church concept where they are more like missional action teams.  That got me wondering, in the case of the mystic, if that could work online?  What would that look like?</p>
<p>nooc</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jun 2006 14:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Great post!  I too enjoy reading books from the "fringes" of my usual thought patterns.  These days, there are so many varying statistics on world-religion growth.  I'm not AT ALL disagreeing with Megashift's facts, but I've seen so many stats that prove Islam is growing the quickest, then Christianity, then Islam, so on and so forth.  I also know how serious many pentacostals are about advancing the Kingdom.  It seems that those who EXPECT God to do great works often see them the most.  

Cool post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!  I too enjoy reading books from the &#8220;fringes&#8221; of my usual thought patterns.  These days, there are so many varying statistics on world-religion growth.  I&#8217;m not AT ALL disagreeing with Megashift&#8217;s facts, but I&#8217;ve seen so many stats that prove Islam is growing the quickest, then Christianity, then Islam, so on and so forth.  I also know how serious many pentacostals are about advancing the Kingdom.  It seems that those who EXPECT God to do great works often see them the most.  </p>
<p>Cool post!</p>
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		<title>By: tony sheng</title>
		<link>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>tony sheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 22:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nooc.voxtropolis.com/2006/06/07/a-gadget-a-blog-and-why-im-reading-mega-shift/#comment-148</guid>
		<description>I read MegaShift a few months ago - but need to go back and re-read it.  Some of it sound so sensational, but I think that's part of the point.  Just that God is doing some amazing things outside the Western world and no one talks about it very much.
If for no other reason, it gives an interesting, like you said, balance, to our perspectives huh....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read MegaShift a few months ago - but need to go back and re-read it.  Some of it sound so sensational, but I think that&#8217;s part of the point.  Just that God is doing some amazing things outside the Western world and no one talks about it very much.<br />
If for no other reason, it gives an interesting, like you said, balance, to our perspectives huh&#8230;.</p>
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